Damn DRL's, Burnt Out Again!!!
- Thread starter BowTieBandit
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oneradride
Full Access Member
Design: I was not coming down on your suggestions, fact is I was thinking about a relay and posted that on the first page of this thread…..
It’s obvious that if the entire truck is running at 14V then the lights are also. The problem is, this explodes LED’s and I want, and will, make them work.
It’s obvious that if the entire truck is running at 14V then the lights are also. The problem is, this explodes LED’s and I want, and will, make them work.
boostaholic
Full Access Member
You'll have to regulate the isolated led itself to maintain proper voltage. LEDS are a pain in the ass to work with sometimes but are wonderful once you get the bugs worked out. Good luck.
oneradride
Full Access Member
That sounds awesome and a heck of a lot easier than what I’m about to try.. Tell me more? Do you have a link? Has anyone experienced success with this type of bulb? Thanks- DB
oneradride
Full Access Member
I kind of feel like I’m hijacking this thread…. Sorry about that, If anyone cares I can start another..
Well anyone that has been following this knows that I’m hell bent on making these LED’s work. I found some new interesting information that I would like to share because I know I’m not the only one with these issues.
For stop turn application there is a part number 625.LE the is a ‘load Equalizer’ and fixes multiple issues including…3157 - Chevy and GM Trucks brake and turn signals or cruise/transmission, and flasher.
Auto Zone 12.00 bucks // http://www.jamstrait.com/loadeq.html
However, these will not work for DRL’s. They are ONLY for intermittent use, turn, brake.
----------------------------------
Then I found these
That have a definition of something like this…..
If you've done much poking around consumer digital electronics, you've probably seen them: Those weird three-pin devices which seem to be connected to the power supply, and thus probably have something to do with power regulation. But maybe you never actually bothered to figure out what they were for, thinking they were silly. Well, voltage regulators, as they are simply called, are actually very simple devices, and they serve an important and useful function in the field of electronics, even though their function has more to do with analog than digital electronics. Essentially, all a voltage regulator does is, obviously, regulate voltage; That is, it limits the voltage that passes through it. Each regulator has a voltage rating; For example, the 7805 IC (these regulators are often considered to be ICs) is a 5-volt voltage regulator. What that means is that no matter how many volts you put into it, it will output only 5 volts. This means that you can connect a 9-volt battery, a 12-volt power supply, or virtually anything else that's over 5 volts, and have the 7805 give you a nice supply of 5 volts out. Handy, eh? There are also 7812 (12-volt) and 7815 (15-volt) three-pin regulators in common use.The pinout for a three-pin voltage regulator is as follows:
1: Voltage in
2: Ground
3: Voltage out
For example, with a 9-volt battery, you'd connect the positive end to pin 1 and the negative (or ground) end to pin 2. A 7805 would then give you +5 volts on pin 3.
Voltage regulators are simple and useful. There are only two important drawbacks to them: First, the input voltage must be higher than the output voltage. For example, you cannot give a 7805 only 2 or 3 volts and expect it to give you 5 volts in return. Generally, the input voltage must be at least 2 volts higher than the desired output voltage, so a 7805 would require about 7 volts to work properly. The other problem: The excess voltage is dissipated as heat. At low voltages (such as using a 9-volt battery with a 7805), this is not a problem. At higher voltages, however, it becomes a very real problem and you must have some way of controlling the temperature so you don't melt your regulator. This is why most voltage regulators have a metal plate with a hole in it; That plate is intended for attaching a heat sink to.
Do not confuse three-pin voltage regulators with a device known as a TRIAC (short for triode AC switch). It is easy to associate them with each other, since they look similar (both have three pins) and they both regulate power. However, the 78XX type of regulators are used for regulating DC current, while TRIACs are used for AC current. Many thanks to Thomas Maslen for pointing out this to me, so I could fix this page (which previously repeatedly used the term "TRIAC" interchangeably to refer to 7805-type devices).
// I’ll post how they work out
Well anyone that has been following this knows that I’m hell bent on making these LED’s work. I found some new interesting information that I would like to share because I know I’m not the only one with these issues.
For stop turn application there is a part number 625.LE the is a ‘load Equalizer’ and fixes multiple issues including…3157 - Chevy and GM Trucks brake and turn signals or cruise/transmission, and flasher.
Auto Zone 12.00 bucks // http://www.jamstrait.com/loadeq.html
However, these will not work for DRL’s. They are ONLY for intermittent use, turn, brake.
----------------------------------
Then I found these
That have a definition of something like this…..
If you've done much poking around consumer digital electronics, you've probably seen them: Those weird three-pin devices which seem to be connected to the power supply, and thus probably have something to do with power regulation. But maybe you never actually bothered to figure out what they were for, thinking they were silly. Well, voltage regulators, as they are simply called, are actually very simple devices, and they serve an important and useful function in the field of electronics, even though their function has more to do with analog than digital electronics. Essentially, all a voltage regulator does is, obviously, regulate voltage; That is, it limits the voltage that passes through it. Each regulator has a voltage rating; For example, the 7805 IC (these regulators are often considered to be ICs) is a 5-volt voltage regulator. What that means is that no matter how many volts you put into it, it will output only 5 volts. This means that you can connect a 9-volt battery, a 12-volt power supply, or virtually anything else that's over 5 volts, and have the 7805 give you a nice supply of 5 volts out. Handy, eh? There are also 7812 (12-volt) and 7815 (15-volt) three-pin regulators in common use.The pinout for a three-pin voltage regulator is as follows:
1: Voltage in
2: Ground
3: Voltage out
For example, with a 9-volt battery, you'd connect the positive end to pin 1 and the negative (or ground) end to pin 2. A 7805 would then give you +5 volts on pin 3.
Voltage regulators are simple and useful. There are only two important drawbacks to them: First, the input voltage must be higher than the output voltage. For example, you cannot give a 7805 only 2 or 3 volts and expect it to give you 5 volts in return. Generally, the input voltage must be at least 2 volts higher than the desired output voltage, so a 7805 would require about 7 volts to work properly. The other problem: The excess voltage is dissipated as heat. At low voltages (such as using a 9-volt battery with a 7805), this is not a problem. At higher voltages, however, it becomes a very real problem and you must have some way of controlling the temperature so you don't melt your regulator. This is why most voltage regulators have a metal plate with a hole in it; That plate is intended for attaching a heat sink to.
Do not confuse three-pin voltage regulators with a device known as a TRIAC (short for triode AC switch). It is easy to associate them with each other, since they look similar (both have three pins) and they both regulate power. However, the 78XX type of regulators are used for regulating DC current, while TRIACs are used for AC current. Many thanks to Thomas Maslen for pointing out this to me, so I could fix this page (which previously repeatedly used the term "TRIAC" interchangeably to refer to 7805-type devices).
// I’ll post how they work out
Last edited:
MikeCallery
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I guess I'm just missing a couple of things here.
First, did I read right there is an issue with the DRL's burning out? I've had the same bulbs in since I bought my 06 and they are running fine. They aren't super white but they work so if there is an issue with them burning out, I'm not one of them.
Second, I wish they would outlaw people putting orange in DRL's. Sorry, I'm not one for all this show and blow let's color my lights. They should be white and are there for a reason, but that's must my opinion. Once you start changing them where they have the appearance of a turn signal, I think that the law should kick in and say sorry, no!!! We have trouble now with people who misinterpret signals, turn in front of you, why are we making it more challenging and dangerous.
Guess it's just cool, and I understand, but one day some stupid little old lady is going to hang a turn in front of you, or worse yet, a biker, and someone's going to get hurt.
First, did I read right there is an issue with the DRL's burning out? I've had the same bulbs in since I bought my 06 and they are running fine. They aren't super white but they work so if there is an issue with them burning out, I'm not one of them.
Second, I wish they would outlaw people putting orange in DRL's. Sorry, I'm not one for all this show and blow let's color my lights. They should be white and are there for a reason, but that's must my opinion. Once you start changing them where they have the appearance of a turn signal, I think that the law should kick in and say sorry, no!!! We have trouble now with people who misinterpret signals, turn in front of you, why are we making it more challenging and dangerous.
Guess it's just cool, and I understand, but one day some stupid little old lady is going to hang a turn in front of you, or worse yet, a biker, and someone's going to get hurt.
greengumby
Full Access Member
I've had the same bulbs in mine since i bought my hoe back in 03 and never had an issue myself ...
oneradride
Full Access Member
Just so we are clear the 4114LL last a long time. I’m not particularly fond of the yellow myself but to each his own. These are the bulbs I’m trying to get to work, and not fry from almost 15 volts…… They are designed to work with the reflectors in the DRL housing unit and look really nice for about 2 days, until they melt.
MikeCallery
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Sorry, but I'm confused. Are the 4114LL's the stock, OEM bulb? If so, what are you showing in your post. It's obviously an LED bulb, but is that what you are having trouble with burning out?
No. I was the topic starter. He is having trouble getting the LED's to work for his application.
To refresh:
I have noticed that the 'Driver's side DRL seem to burn out quite often on these trucks'. Mine included, always driver's side. Initial post was to see if others found that one burned out more than the other. That's all. :thumbsup:
To refresh:
I have noticed that the 'Driver's side DRL seem to burn out quite often on these trucks'. Mine included, always driver's side. Initial post was to see if others found that one burned out more than the other. That's all. :thumbsup:
oneradride
Full Access Member
Sorry about that John, The answer to your question (at least in my part of town) is absolutely YES. I live in Omaha and I can say without a doubt there are more of these trucks running around with one light on, than there are with 2. I’ll pay closer attention to which light is out in the future…..
I can’t figure the cause because the DRL circuit seems to be running at the same voltage as the rest of the truck but there is definitely something to this because DRL’s are the first to go from what I’ve seen….
I can’t figure the cause because the DRL circuit seems to be running at the same voltage as the rest of the truck but there is definitely something to this because DRL’s are the first to go from what I’ve seen….
MikeCallery
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I did a search on the 4114LL's and found an interesting bit of information on another board. I'm not pretending to be electrically proficient, but will let you guys pick this apart. It just seemed like some pertinent information:
---------------------
The above was a direct quote from Jake York at Velocity LEDs in response to some questions I asked about GM truck DRLs.
If your alternator is working right, you should get 15.4 to 15.6 volts briefly after a hard start or if the battery has been rundown a little (like listening to the sound system or using lights) before the most recent start. Within a minute, the voltage should settle in between 14.2 to 14.7 volts, dependent on ambient temperatures. After several minutes should settle in about 13.5 to 13.8 volts.
He didn't specify whether he meant voltage or current spikes. In any case, apparently the present LEDs are not hardy enough to tolerate these higher voltages.
For incandescents, Sylvania is now recommending 4114K or 4114LL bulbs which are designed to operate at 14.2 volts rather than the 3157K or 3157LL which are designed for 12.8 volts.
---------------------
The above was a direct quote from Jake York at Velocity LEDs in response to some questions I asked about GM truck DRLs.
If your alternator is working right, you should get 15.4 to 15.6 volts briefly after a hard start or if the battery has been rundown a little (like listening to the sound system or using lights) before the most recent start. Within a minute, the voltage should settle in between 14.2 to 14.7 volts, dependent on ambient temperatures. After several minutes should settle in about 13.5 to 13.8 volts.
He didn't specify whether he meant voltage or current spikes. In any case, apparently the present LEDs are not hardy enough to tolerate these higher voltages.
For incandescents, Sylvania is now recommending 4114K or 4114LL bulbs which are designed to operate at 14.2 volts rather than the 3157K or 3157LL which are designed for 12.8 volts.
oneradride
Full Access Member
That is good stuff but it's already on the first page of this thread..
This is a new find and I'm going to try it tomorrow.
A little background... I was looking for a way to get rid of the yellow turn signal lamps on my '03 EXT and came across the Silverstar 3157 bulbs. Put them in and they looked kind of nice. I wanted to switch my DRL's from "white" to amber because I like the look of the amber with Raven Black. So I swapped my DRLs to the silverstars also. That was almost a year ago. Recently I started to notice an ever so slight hazing on the inside of the lense assembly and suddenly realized that the Silver stars are too hot and are clouding my lenses. Not Good. So to prevent any further clouding I removed the Silverstars and replaced them with the 4114K listed bulbs.
Turns out, as many of you may know, that the GMT 800 body style has a voltage issue on the DRL's. They operate at closer to 14 Vdc rather that 12 Vdc. Which leads to shorter bulb life. So Sylvania came up with the 4114K which is rated to operate at 14V. But they are "white" (actually yellowish.) So I started looking into LEDs, but found out that due to the higher voltage in the DRL's, LED's are burning out in a month or so because at times the voltage can spike to over 15V, which burns up the LED. BTW, don't try to tell me it's because of "increased current." That's 100% impossible. Kirchoff's voltage law states that Voltage equals the product of Current and Resistance (V=I*R) Which means that voltage and current have an inversley proportionate relationship. Simply put, as the voltage goes up, the current goes down assuming the resistance remains the same. However, LEDs are NOT capable of higher than rated voltage for very long. When I measured the voltage on my truck I got from 14.03V to 14.56V depending on idle and starting.
So, what to do? The nice thing about Kirchoff's law is that you can limit the voltage applied to a load by inserting more resistance in the circuit. I got my LED's and ran them off a 12Vdc power supply and using a multi-meter, measured the current. it was about 77 milliAmps or 0.077 Amps. (compare that to the 2.1 Amps of the 4114K) I should insert here that I am an electrical engineer by trade. I wanted to limit the voltage in my DRL's to 12Vdc, so I needed about a 1.7V drop. Back to Kirchoff, 1.7Vdc/0.077=22 Ohms. So I took a trip to radio shack and purchased so 22 ohm, 1/2 watt resistors and some 15 ohms for good measure. (99 cents for 5 of each.) Opened up the headlight assembly, found the dark blue power wire going to the DRL's, clipped the wire, soldered in a single 22 ohm resistor, and plugged in my LED bulb. I checked the voltage again after installation and (this is where real world comes into play) found that my new LED's were getting 11.25V now instead of the 14V before. Why? I forgot to measure the initial voltage under load so the bulbs were probably getting more like 13V under load. Pulled the 22 ohm resistor, installed the 15 ohm resistor and BINGO! 11.89Vdc under load. So now my DRL's are LED bulbs operating at a livable 11.89Vdc.
This is a new find and I'm going to try it tomorrow.
A little background... I was looking for a way to get rid of the yellow turn signal lamps on my '03 EXT and came across the Silverstar 3157 bulbs. Put them in and they looked kind of nice. I wanted to switch my DRL's from "white" to amber because I like the look of the amber with Raven Black. So I swapped my DRLs to the silverstars also. That was almost a year ago. Recently I started to notice an ever so slight hazing on the inside of the lense assembly and suddenly realized that the Silver stars are too hot and are clouding my lenses. Not Good. So to prevent any further clouding I removed the Silverstars and replaced them with the 4114K listed bulbs.
Turns out, as many of you may know, that the GMT 800 body style has a voltage issue on the DRL's. They operate at closer to 14 Vdc rather that 12 Vdc. Which leads to shorter bulb life. So Sylvania came up with the 4114K which is rated to operate at 14V. But they are "white" (actually yellowish.) So I started looking into LEDs, but found out that due to the higher voltage in the DRL's, LED's are burning out in a month or so because at times the voltage can spike to over 15V, which burns up the LED. BTW, don't try to tell me it's because of "increased current." That's 100% impossible. Kirchoff's voltage law states that Voltage equals the product of Current and Resistance (V=I*R) Which means that voltage and current have an inversley proportionate relationship. Simply put, as the voltage goes up, the current goes down assuming the resistance remains the same. However, LEDs are NOT capable of higher than rated voltage for very long. When I measured the voltage on my truck I got from 14.03V to 14.56V depending on idle and starting.
So, what to do? The nice thing about Kirchoff's law is that you can limit the voltage applied to a load by inserting more resistance in the circuit. I got my LED's and ran them off a 12Vdc power supply and using a multi-meter, measured the current. it was about 77 milliAmps or 0.077 Amps. (compare that to the 2.1 Amps of the 4114K) I should insert here that I am an electrical engineer by trade. I wanted to limit the voltage in my DRL's to 12Vdc, so I needed about a 1.7V drop. Back to Kirchoff, 1.7Vdc/0.077=22 Ohms. So I took a trip to radio shack and purchased so 22 ohm, 1/2 watt resistors and some 15 ohms for good measure. (99 cents for 5 of each.) Opened up the headlight assembly, found the dark blue power wire going to the DRL's, clipped the wire, soldered in a single 22 ohm resistor, and plugged in my LED bulb. I checked the voltage again after installation and (this is where real world comes into play) found that my new LED's were getting 11.25V now instead of the 14V before. Why? I forgot to measure the initial voltage under load so the bulbs were probably getting more like 13V under load. Pulled the 22 ohm resistor, installed the 15 ohm resistor and BINGO! 11.89Vdc under load. So now my DRL's are LED bulbs operating at a livable 11.89Vdc.
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That's awesome, so when will you be producing a plug and play kit for us that are less electrically inclined?
Perhaps you can list the exact LED bulb you chose to use as your DRL?
So basically (cliff notes style) solder in a 15 ohm resistor into the dark blue power wire to the DRL and I can use LED bulbs.
You get the thread clarification Gold Star:thumbsup:
Perhaps you can list the exact LED bulb you chose to use as your DRL?
So basically (cliff notes style) solder in a 15 ohm resistor into the dark blue power wire to the DRL and I can use LED bulbs.
You get the thread clarification Gold Star:thumbsup:
oneradride
Full Access Member
I wish I could take credit for the above but I found that information on another site. I’m good with automotive wiring but I have nothing close to this guy’s knowledge.
The bulbs I ordered are these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=320220708591
Ebay item number 320220708591
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And on the radio shack website these are the 15 Ohm resistors. .99 cents for a 5 Pack
15 Ohm, 1/2W 5% Carbon Film Resistor (5-Pack)
Model: 271-1102 | Catalog #: 271-1102
Reduce the flow of electricity in your project with this 5-pack of 15-ohm carbon-film resistors. 1/2-watt, 5% tolerance. http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=15 ohm resistor&origkw=15 ohm resistor&sr=1
The bulbs I ordered are these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=320220708591
Ebay item number 320220708591
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And on the radio shack website these are the 15 Ohm resistors. .99 cents for a 5 Pack
15 Ohm, 1/2W 5% Carbon Film Resistor (5-Pack)
Model: 271-1102 | Catalog #: 271-1102
Reduce the flow of electricity in your project with this 5-pack of 15-ohm carbon-film resistors. 1/2-watt, 5% tolerance. http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=15 ohm resistor&origkw=15 ohm resistor&sr=1
oneradride
Full Access Member
IT WORKS!!!
I love it when a plan comes together!! :beerchug:
I love it when a plan comes together!! :beerchug:
JPerkMr954
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These are the bulbs that I am looking to place in my DRL spot.
http://superlumination.com/3157_3156.htm
3157 silverstars which Bowtie used in another thread, so from what i gathered am I to expect these to burn out fast or were you more directing this to LED's
http://superlumination.com/3157_3156.htm
3157 silverstars which Bowtie used in another thread, so from what i gathered am I to expect these to burn out fast or were you more directing this to LED's
oneradride
Full Access Member
More directed to LED's, I don't know about the 3157 silverstars but they look good in the ad. BTW my led's are still working great now!!
XcesiveSlyd
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Yeah, I'm a little slow. I just found this thread. oneradride, Dude your a badass. Your persistence has paid off for me and all my gm buddies. I'll install my new lights thurs. evening. You've made my day a little brighter. (side note- just blew the engine on my Toyota pick up today and am/was having a craptastic day....)
