AEM Brute Force Intake

[Evolved1]

Well I'm a noob to this site. I picked up my 08 Tahoe last month. I got a great deal on an AEM Brute Force Intake so I put it on today. I wanted to put on the intake before I get a sniper tuning box with custom tunes from my friend(Jestr Tuning). I managed to snap some pictures of the install.

stock

AEM Intake

disconnected maf and vac hose

heat shield

installed

 

[992door]

looks good

 

[Nnaboy]

Looking good, now you should move on to a CatBack.

 

[hoser]

Perhaps someone can help me understand the purpose of these intake systems?

I hear catchy phrases like "cold air intake" but I just dont see it.

I never been into a 08 Tahoe intake but have been into a 96 Tahoe system, I assume the 08 box is like the 96 box double walled design so it is insulated from the heat, the thermal break in a double wall makes it harder for heat to transfer from out to in and in to out.

looking at the after market box its not insulated, it looks to be metal? Metal is a great conductor of heat... Anything colored black attracts heat this is why you open up electrical devices that have heat sinks and the majority of them (all cept for really low end stuff) have heat sinks colored black rather than bare aluminum.

The stock box looks completely sealed from the engine compartment, the 08 looks like they even use a foam seal at the fender, my 96 is not sealed that well, looks like GM went to extremes to make sure its sealed?

I have to assume someone took the stock system and conducted some real basic test, the assumption is these type kits provide cooler air and more air to the engine?

It would be real simple to test the cold air theory, you just need a digital thermometer and check the air temps, I wonder if the computer on the auto checks and test this as part of the fuel delivery system?

Then you could install the after market parts and see what the difference in temps are, so how much lower temps id the cold air intake suppose to provide? Lets say it makes it 200 degrees colder how does that translate into any possible gains for my engine?

I have driven thousands of miles in air temps below 30 degrees, I never noticed any increases is mpg or power then again I didnt put my engine on a dyno to see the 20hp gains I will never feel at the drivers seat...

As far as the filters, want more flow add MORE surface area not a filter that is the same size or smaller that flows more air, more air flow = more dirt flow, dont take my word for it call and talk to K&N engineers they recommend you run a foam pre filter on all their filters if used off road they also offer NO flow data with a foam pre filter...

I want my engine to last so I will stick with paper, you cant beat it for filtration, well a oil bath is better but no longer allowed.... I rebuilt the engine on my 96 Tahoe about 1500 miles ago, when the engine was out I pressure washed the engine (not motor) compartment now after 1500 miles on the hwy I noticed the whole engine compartment is covered in dust and dirt, more so than I have seen under my hoods in the past, might be the body design? I also notice more dirt dust inside the air filter box, more than I normally found inside filter housings in the past (70, 80, 90's Blazers Suburbans) I assume its the same reason, the body design captures more...

I never never been convinced I need more air flow than the factory allowed me to have but then again I am never running my engines at redline loaded to the max GVW's either, I have loaded my 86 surburban to a combined weight of 14,000 lbs and made a 1300 mile trip, I flipped the air cleaner over and installed a taller air filter for 1/2 the trip (it was a test suggested by a friend) after 600 miles it showed no mpg or power improvements.. It sure sounded more powerful and better..

Air flow test are east to conduct I wish I still had the equiptment, I am sure the company's that make and sell these products have them, I am not sure why they dont show a complete 08 stock system flow then their system flow, then MORE IMPORTANTLY why you need the more flow, I guess they have to prove the stock system cant do the job.

The sellers of these kits could also show how many more CFM's you gain by lowering the air temps by say 100 degrees, I bet its about a thimble full of air at 7000 RPM's

I have heard some concerns about the flexible pipe in the stock systems, no doubt like all vacuum cleaners the friction loses is engineered into the inside diameter of the pipe, I know on all my vacuum cleaners I can turn it on and remove the hose and see no variations in the amp draw so the load is not changing IE its not sucking harder with the hose on, NOW start adding attachments and you see the amp draw go up...

Sorry for my ramblings just thinking out loud.

 

[Evolved1]

I'm unsure on whether or not the system was flow check vs a stock intake, but I would hope that AEM took those measures when developing the system.

It's not the same vehicle but on my evolution VIII I went from a stock panel filter to a cone filter and on datalogs the Hz on the maf was a lot higher. It wasn't as consistent though. Higher frequency readings indicate more airflow. Combining more airflow with a better flowing exhuast increase the VE of a motor which in theory would make a motor perform better and since it's running more efficient should increase gas mileage.

Just because *insert car manufacturer* designs a piece does not necessarily mean it's an optimum design otherwise there would not be an aftermarket part market. I'm sure several things come into the equation when designing a part i.e. cost of materials, cost to manufacture, duarability of a part, etc.

Some people enjoy adding aftermarket parts on their vehicles ;-)

 

[Thundergod]

Just because there's an aftermarket part, which may be in demand, doesn't mean the part performs up to its hype.

 

[Evolved1]

Guess I'll have to put the stock intake on and throw it on my friend's dyno for a baseline number and put the intake back on to see then ;-)

 

[hoser]

Just because there's an aftermarket part, which may be in demand, doesn't mean the part performs up to its hype.

At least one understands, advertisers rely on the customer imagination and the spreading of false hope to sell products, where is smiling bob... Enzite guy is going to jail for about 25 years, look at airborne they were forced to pay back 30 million bux.

I am always a skeptic simply because of the wording they use in advertisements, this should be a clue to everybody but its not.

Heres an idea, someone go to the AEM site and find all the info available for this product showing what it actually does, I took a quick look and found nothing.

 

[hoser]

Guess I'll have to put the stock intake on and throw it on my friend's dyno for a baseline number and put the intake back on to see then ;-)

NO
See your starting at it ALL WRONG, put it in the dyno NOW, your computer has had a chance to learn the change, then install your old one and drive it 1000 miles so the computer can re-learn the changed intake then put it on the dyno... their is NO WAY you can perform the test in one day and get any type of accuracy, whilst your putting on the 1000 miles go back through your gas mileage book and average your fuel mpg since you installed the after market parts up to when you switched back to stock.

If you cant do this I could care less what numbers your buddy's dyno spews because its all going to be physiological numbers...

I also know people who own dynos, both ATV and automotive, their business survive on gains seen on the dynos they both learned long ago that customers that didnt see a gain from their mods never came back, guys that seen gains always come back with more parts to test, both these guys pay for their dynos by return customers, both dont like me asking questions and offering suggestions like I have done in the the first paragraph of this reply.

I love the after market industry its a multi billion dollar a year industry great for our economy I also love logical questions answered about the products but this seldom happens

Can someone tell me exactly what this kit from AEM is suppose to do other than add some possible bling bling ?

 

[LVYUKYUK]

opc1:

 

[Evolved1]

NO
See your starting at it ALL WRONG, put it in the dyno NOW, your computer has had a chance to learn the change, then install your old one and drive it 1000 miles so the computer can re-learn the changed intake then put it on the dyno... their is NO WAY you can perform the test in one day and get any type of accuracy, whilst your putting on the 1000 miles go back through your gas mileage book and average your fuel mpg since you installed the after market parts up to when you switched back to stock.

If you cant do this I could care less what numbers your buddy's dyno spews because its all going to be physiological numbers...

I also know people who own dynos, both ATV and automotive, their business survive on gains seen on the dynos they both learned long ago that customers that didnt see a gain from their mods never came back, guys that seen gains always come back with more parts to test, both these guys pay for their dynos by return customers, both dont like me asking questions and offering suggestions like I have done in the the first paragraph of this reply.

I love the after market industry its a multi billion dollar a year industry great for our economy I also love logical questions answered about the products but this seldom happens

Can someone tell me exactly what this kit from AEM is suppose to do other than add some possible bling bling ?

Help me understand where you got your information where the tahoe ecu will take 1,000 miles to relearn and make adjustments to the closed-loop fuel trims.

My friend writes the tuning software for Sniper Tuning. I can have him load up a factory base map when I put on the factory intake, problem solved. Then I will throw on the intake prior to the "1000 mile ecu/ecm relearning". I will have my truck tuned to see any numbers. There are a lot of variables that come into questions when not performing same day dyno tests.

I could care less what your friends atv or automotive dyno says or tells his customers. I owned a performance shop in a brief business venture which included a dynojet 424xLC2 all wheel drive dyno with eddy currents and it would be very difficult to hide dyno numbers from customers in fear of losing their business. I find that quite humorous.

It seems as though you have your reservations about aftermarket parts and the aftermarket industry. Why convolute the thread with your opinions on how to properly test an intake when you sound like you have your mind made up?

 

[emann_01]

Wow Hoser, you just pissed all over his parade.....

 

[hoser]

Many tuners I have talked to say it takes hundreds of miles for the computer to learn and adjust to the changes they recommend using a 1000 miles to get accurate data, it sounds to me that you want instant results not accurate results, your logic reads like a salesman trying to sell something, I have nothing to sell, I only ask questions in hopes of learning something, I have yet to learn anything about these intakes because nobody can supply any creditable data, I am really not sure why anybody would not want to average results over a large period of time.

I ran 5 tanks of gas through my Tahoe and averaged 15.1 mpg, I am driving 170 miles a day all the miles are on the same trip, I removed the bug deflector and so far have run 3 tanks with it off averaging 16.2 mpg, if I took the first tank of gas with it on and the first tank with it off it would show only .4 mpg gains not the more accurate 1.1 mpg gain (so far) from removing the bug deflector, the wind is blowing hard today so I suspect their was be a change from the .4 mpg tank.

Next I change the purlator air filter and replace it with a new GM filter to see if the mpg changes, I will average 10 tanks of gas new/old.

After the air filter I take tire pressure from 70 to 80 and check the mpg difference after another 5 tanks of gas.

Again I am looking for hard solid data not bling, not hype, not someone regurgitating what they read on the mfg's web site.

I am seldom sold on any after market parts simply because more often than not they do nothing buy take your money, mfgs never offer any sensible logical comparisons they carefully word their products descriptions so owners will take it and run with it without any thought.

""""Why convolute the thread with your opinions on how to properly test an intake when you sound like you have your mind made up?""""

Thats a helpful statement, its very distracting (can you say spin) from the topic I am not sure why your trying to make a soap opera out of some simple thoughts aimed at helping people, obtaining facts and hopefully bringing to light exactly what the benefits of this product actually are maybe even bring out some facts everybody can learn from, I find it ironic that your statement also applies to exactly what you have typed here so right back at you

Why convolute the thread with your opinions on how to properly test an intake when you sound like you have your mind made up?

I am still looking for non emotional hard data on this product if someone has any to offer """""I'm unsure on whether or not the system was flow check vs a stock intake, but I would hope that AEM took those measures when developing the system."""" No offense I am not looking for assumptions or "hope" I learned at a early age its hard to believe what a mfg tells you, you ever buy the "toy box full or army men" or "sea monkeys" when you were a kid? I am a skilled fabricator and can fabricate my own intake piping like in the pics above but I am not going to waste my time if they are not working for others, I have access to air flow test equiptment and hopefully this winter will have time to flow test the factory intake from the fender to the throttle plate then fab a replacement piping and see if their is any gains in the areas I will be operating my engine 99.999% of the time.



Please if you dont have any solid data keep your soap opera comments for when your on the Jerry Springer show """"Wow Hoser, you just pissed all over his parade.....""""" These comments do nothing to bring a clear understanding to what this intake system actually does or does not do its just a cheap shot to try and distract from the facts about this product.

 

[emann_01]

the original post was not asking any questions and you just stuck in your two cents...........the way i see it you did piss on his parade when he was just sharing information and pictures

 

[Thundergod]

Sharing info and pictures? The first impression I had after reading the creator of this thread's first post was, "Hmmm, this reads like a planted posting from the manufacturer themselves".
Just being honest. That's the way it came across to me. And, I still have my suspicions.
I will defend anyone's right to post their opinion on this forum. If you disagree with hoser, so be it. You don't get to tell him that his posts are somehow inappropriate. Who are you to set such standards?
One other thing. If you post anything on this or any other site, expect that someone will comment on it. If you can't handle that, then don't post anything.

 

[Evolved1]

Many tuners I have talked to say it takes hundreds of miles for the computer to learn and adjust to the changes they recommend using a 1000 miles to get accurate data, it sounds to me that you want instant results not accurate results, your logic reads like a salesman trying to sell something, I have nothing to sell, I only ask questions in hopes of learning something, I have yet to learn anything about these intakes because nobody can supply any creditable data, I am really not sure why anybody would not want to average results over a large period of time.

I ran 5 tanks of gas through my Tahoe and averaged 15.1 mpg, I am driving 170 miles a day all the miles are on the same trip, I removed the bug deflector and so far have run 3 tanks with it off averaging 16.2 mpg, if I took the first tank of gas with it on and the first tank with it off it would show only .4 mpg gains not the more accurate 1.1 mpg gain (so far) from removing the bug deflector, the wind is blowing hard today so I suspect their was be a change from the .4 mpg tank.

Next I change the purlator air filter and replace it with a new GM filter to see if the mpg changes, I will average 10 tanks of gas new/old.

After the air filter I take tire pressure from 70 to 80 and check the mpg difference after another 5 tanks of gas.

Again I am looking for hard solid data not bling, not hype, not someone regurgitating what they read on the mfg's web site.

I am seldom sold on any after market parts simply because more often than not they do nothing buy take your money, mfgs never offer any sensible logical comparisons they carefully word their products descriptions so owners will take it and run with it without any thought.

Using the mpg reading is hardly what I call "hard data". I can understand using a wideband O2 or lambda sensor to monitor afr's. Of monitoring an egt gauge to monitor whether or not the computer is pulling timing. If I can get ahold of a datalogger software that would be even better as I would be able to monitor knock voltage, ait's, maf frequency, etc.

I have nothing to sell. I posted in hopes of trying to contribute to the boards since I found it researching information on the gm lockpick.

I too have spoken to several tuners since you posted your information about a "1000 miles for the factory ecu/pcm to acclimate itself to an intake". Everyone I have spoken to say it takes 100-200 miles. I can provide you with a list of tuners I know and have spoken to to get this information.

I will agree with you that there are a lot of aftermarket companies out there just to make a buck. I've seen several parts come into my shop that required "adjusting" to make it fit or didn't make the power it advertised on our dyno. Not all aftermarket companies fall into that catergory.

I am a skilled fabricator and can fabricate my own intake piping like in the pics above but I am not going to waste my time if they are not working for others, I have access to air flow test equiptment and hopefully this winter will have time to flow test the factory intake from the fender to the throttle plate then fab a replacement piping and see if their is any gains in the areas I will be operating my engine 99.999% of the time.

That's interesting. What ideas do you have as far as improving current intake designs? What diameter piping will you be using? Aluminum or steel? Would it matter where the maf is in relation to the TB? Is an airflow test going to be the hard data you will be using to determine whether or not it provide gains over the stock intake? If it works better than ones on the market, I'd purchase one.

Please if you dont have any solid data keep your soap opera comments for when your on the Jerry Springer show

Practice what you preach ;-)

NO
See your starting at it ALL WRONG,

Can someone tell me exactly what this kit from AEM is suppose to do other than add some possible bling bling ?

I find it ironic that your statement also applies to exactly what you have typed here so right back at you

Interestingly enough I have spoken with friends in the panhandle of FL that specialize in Ford/GM builds and tuning. On a trailblazer SS they recently had at the shop they did basic bolt-ons(intake and exhaust) and it was only a fender faster than a stock trailblazer ss. After tuning it was a completely different truck.

 

[73shark]

It also appears from the pics that the AEM box tries to seal against the bottom of the hood w/ a big gap at the front whereas the OEM system is completely closed to the outside.

Most of the hp increase claims I've seen like K&N are at or above 4,000 rpm where most folks spend very little time.

 

[LVYUKYUK]

It also appears from the pics that the AEM box tries to seal against the bottom of the hood w/ a big gap at the front whereas the OEM system is completely closed to the outside.

Most of the hp increase claims I've seen like K&N are at or above 4,000 rpm where most folks spend very little time.

Just adding personal experience, not stoking anybody's fire, but I installed an AirRaid system on my H3 when I owned it. I also had a cat-back system installed (MagnaFlow). I noticed a lag from a dead start that previously was not there, but I did notice that higher RPMs did have more power. I took off the MangnaFlow because a 5cyl sounded too close to a fart pipe but left on the AirRaid. Still no increase in butt dyno or mpg. All my other vehicles I dropped in just a K&N replacement cartridge and did feel what I thought was a little more umphff. So, I'm going to toss in a K&N and call it a day.

My guess is maybe a true ram air system would prob give some go at speed. I'm putting my bucks into a 2/3 drop which is totally not related! :crazy:

 

[thedude337]

i just put the aem on my 01 tahoe and i like it. if you look at the old box it has 2 little itty bitty holes in it. now im no scientist but im sure the after market kit lets it draw more air. on the other hand think about it this way would you build an engine with better heads headers exhaust upper and lower intake and use the stock box? in this situation the intake would be more noticeable. on my stock hoe idk it seems more responsive and peppy, it sounds good. if your like me you will probably see a loss in fuel economy from gouging on it to listen to the sound it makes

 

[thedude337]

oh and it was a good way to kill a few hours with a good friend