Chance to Upgrade Fuel Pump Before BB tune?

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treepete

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Hey guys, Im off work today, so Im posting about fuel pumps.
Everyone here knows the standard fuel pump problems our trucks have, etc.

Im wondering if there is a BETTER fuel pump setup we can install in our rides.
Mine is ready for replacement I think, (whines a lot, starting to bog under heavy accelleration) and Im just wondering if there are any aftermarket higer pressure/better flow fule pumps/systems that can be made to work on our years. I have a Black Bear comin up soon, and I want to make sure my ride is in tip-top shape for evaluation from Justin. and Im not above a custom tank if necessary.
any thoughts on that?
thanks,
Pete
 

Biggwaukegan

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yo pete. were you getting the blackbear tuning at? im in pleasant prairie wi so is it close? thanks
 

treepete

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click the link at the top left of this page. Im on the waiting list for a cable tune.

email Jenna Bear or Justin at Blackbear, they will gladly help you out. Its very good service.

Pleasant Prarie, I thought you were in Illinois for some reason.
 

Biggwaukegan

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click the link at the top left of this page. Im on the waiting list for a cable tune.

email Jenna Bear or Justin at Blackbear, they will gladly help you out. Its very good service.

Pleasant Prarie, I thought you were in Illinois for some reason.

born in raised in waukegan. just over the border in wild wisconsin now. more FOR your money up here :smilielol:
 

95TwinTT

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Hey guys, Im off work today, so Im posting about fuel pumps.
Everyone here knows the standard fuel pump problems our trucks have, etc.

Im wondering if there is a BETTER fuel pump setup we can install in our rides.
Mine is ready for replacement I think, (whines a lot, starting to bog under heavy accelleration) and Im just wondering if there are any aftermarket higer pressure/better flow fule pumps/systems that can be made to work on our years. I have a Black Bear comin up soon, and I want to make sure my ride is in tip-top shape for evaluation from Justin. and Im not above a custom tank if necessary.
any thoughts on that?
thanks,
Pete

Hey Pete, here are some pumps to consider. Lots of folks use the Walbro pumps. I have a couple myself, but I went to the Bosch for the serious "pumping".. When the twins get spooled up, they like a steady flow of fuel. :) I'm using the 044 Bosch.

Oh, and the garage is just finishing up in time for the snow. I think I have some pictures here someplace.......


http://boschfuelpumps.com/ Link for Bosch pumps...............
 

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bluetahoe

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Not to hi jack this thread....but are any of those bosch pumps direct replacement for our stockers?
 

treepete

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Dammit, Del. Thats awesome.If a neighbors house goes up for sale by you, lemme know.


Im not sure of one of the in-tank pumps can be substituted yet, im looking now.

So Del, to use the stock tank with the 044, one would have to add the fuel lin out of the bottom of the tank, like you did? then protect the line etc, and custom mount the pump itself?
Your install is very neat and inspiring.. Is there any problem if I'm NOT making 500 hp yet? with 72.5PSI can I 'over-do' it with the pressure, wasting fuel, or not really?
 

95TwinTT

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I did the "out the bottom of the tank", for future needs. My plan is to add a second pump when I increase the boost. With such a wide range of horsepower, it is better to have the second pump come on when needed, rather than have it run all the time. It is best to have two "matched" pumps when they are working together on the same fuel rail.

I would have gotten to that point by now, but the garage project took all summer and the Hoe was in storage.

The practical thing to do for your application is just replace the stock with the Walbro. They are similar enough that the swap is easy. There always seem to be small differences between stock pumps and aftermarket. It looks like Walbro might offer application kits to take care of those differences.

The other thing about the 044 is that it is too big to go through the opening in the top of the tank. lol

There are a few web sites that have calculators for figuring out your fuel needs by how much power you are putting out. RC injectors have one.

I'll keep an eye on the housing situation around here and let you know. We can always use another motor head in the neighborhood. :yesnod:
 

treepete

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Awesome. well keep me in the loop on that, and thanks for your insight.

Ill research the walbro and put it on the to-do list.

quickly though, with EFI, and a normal pump out put of 55-60 gph, if you put in 72+gph, would it have worked? I dont ever expect to get 500hp out of this engine (like, ever) but I was just wondering about fuel presure and if it overloads the injectors... Im not familiar with TBI or boosted applications etc.
so yeah.
ok ttyl.
 
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treepete

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oh yeah, the cacluating worksheets at RC Injectors is cool.

I put in that my desired horsepower was 300, and the calculator told me to "get lost, loser" :)

man thats a lot of good info on there.

thanks again.
 

95TwinTT

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Awesome. well keep me in the loop on that, and thanks for your insight.

Ill research the walbro and put it on the to-do list.

quickly though, with EFI, and a normal pump out put of 55-60 psi, if you put in 72+psi, would it have worked? I dont ever expect to get 500hp out of this engine (like, ever) but I was just wondering about fuel presure and if it overloads the injector... Im not familiar with TBI or boosted applications etc.
so yeah.
ok ttyl.



The thing to keep in mind is that the vehicle’s ECM had no idea what the fuel pressure is. So, unless you have a wizard doing your programming, you can get in trouble in a hurry.

What we try to do with forced induction is keep the fuel pressure constant, relative to the manifold pressure. When the injector pee’s into the intake manifold, the amount of that leak is directly proportionate to the fuel pressure vs the atmosphere pressure it is peeing into.

Let’s say for sake of argument, that the manifold pressure was 60 psi and the fuel pressure was 60 psi. Nothing would happen when the injector would trigger.
So, in other words, if you have 15 pounds boost, you would add 15 pounds to the fuel pressure at it’s nominal setting with no vacuum hooked to the regulator.

The trick is to raise fuel pressure in sync with the rise in manifold pressure as the boost comes up. That way, the milliseconds of squirt actually relates to a predictable volume of fuel. It with that assumption that all ECM programs are written.

Some cheaper fuel pressure regulator’s act more like a on/off device and go up too fast and can’t actually follow the boost in sync. That makes for difficult tuning. Also, when the pressure is increased, all pumps put out less volume. It is a balancing act. Most of the time it does not become an issue. I discovered that I am running out of fuel on the dyno, when I hit the top end. I have not had a chance to get back on the dyno, since I increased the alternator output. I know for a fact I was not over 12 volts, during the last dyno tests. I am now at 14 volts ALL the time. I need to see if that additional voltage is enough to make the difference before I start plumbing again.

When you engine is idling, it has vacuum. When you open the throttle all the way, you drop to zero, or in other words, the MAP goes up. The fuel pressure regulator on a stock application simply follows that amount of change. I think that is why the kPa scale was invented to be able to state a pressure which begins in a vacuum.

I’m sure you run across MAP sensors that are for 1 Bar, (N/A) 2 Bar and 3 Bar. Those three versions handle from 30 inches of vacuum, to 30 psi boost.

By the by, there are voltage booster’s out there to get more out of a fuel pump by going over the normal operating voltage. I think most pumps are rated at 14 volts. Have not seen one in person or know of anyone that has tried it, just read about it.

I hope this helps……….Del :cool:
 

treepete

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I think I said this before. You have forgotten more about cars than I'll ever know.
Im shopping basic fuel pumps that are replacements for the stock one.
I see AC Delco, and Carter Brands at Summit. thats it.. there are more options from earlier model years, but not so much for the 99 denali. Ill look again but use 1998 chev yukon instead. I think those are the same.
I dont see Bosch or Walbro for my year, but that always happens. I cant find stuff that other guys have used because I dont know the exact flexibility of my model year/options packages. I think the denali is just a 98 yukon with plastics, leather, and a different radio.
 

95TwinTT

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OK, well, let me leave this thread with this advice. Fuel pumps have nothing to do with pressure other than being able to reach a certain level. The FP regulator handles that by simply holding back and bypassing the excess. Older throttle bodies used lower pressure than the newer, tuned port injectors.

I thought you were looking for some extra output to catch up with a mod you had done.

If you do need more fuel output for any mods, keep in mind the best way to get there is to increase the injector capacity. Keep the pressure stock. The capacity of the fuel pump needs to be there for larger injectors.

The reason for that is simple, all calculations for fuel maps are based on a known pressure. The ECM programs are expecting it too. When the O2 sensors need to adjust the pulse width of the injectors, it assumes standard pressure. If it is higher or lower, the O2 sensors will cause a porpoise action from making a change and then reacting the wrong A/F results a few milliseconds later.

Having said that, it is alright to have a pump that exceeds your needs and you can grow into it. Especially since they are a PITA to install. The fuel pressure will remain the same with the same FPR.

I am certain with your abilities, you would not have any problem installing a walbro. They are about as good as they get and are generally a little less money than the Bosch.

Most people end up using stainless hose clamps and things to mount the pumps if it is does not exactly fit the OEM mount. There is nothing I have seen in fuel tanks that qualifies as Art.

Meanwhile I am trying to forget this crap as fast as I can to make room for new information. lol But seriously, if you need to alter this stuff for more horsepower at some point, track me down and I should be able to steer you in the right direction.
 
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