hesitation/bucking in my 99 Tahoe

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Tex99Tahoe

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1999 4L60E manual excerpts

Congratulations, Mike! You've just graduated to level 2!

Every vehicle I've owned, I've acquired the factory service manual. Here are some selected tidbits on the TCC and diagnostics from the 700+ page transmission section.

Hope they're readable. Your next 3 evenings are now shot...
 

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Tex99Tahoe

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1999 4L60E manual excerpts

More...
 

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Tex99Tahoe

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1999 4L60E manual excerpts

More still...
 

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Tex99Tahoe

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1999 4L60E manual excerpts

Even more more...
 

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lesterl

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The sensors you have changed thus far could have all been tested and quite easily, now you may think what harm could it cause, well new parts could come bad..... been there done that. Now IIRC you could pull the fuse for the transmission and it should only go forwards in 3rd gear, lockup disabled........
 

Stripermike

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Tex - thanks for taking the time to post all that info. Some pages I can make out clearly, some not as much. I'm not certain how much I'll be able to glean from them anyway, while I would consider myself at least somewhat mechanically inclined this problem is most likely beyond my scope.

Just to clarify, since no one else weighed in on the coolant temp sensor result - do you think that test could be masking a cause for the condition, or is it reasonable to deduce that the issue has to do with functioning of the TCC?

And lesterl -IIRC fuse? So your saying the cig lighter fuse will disable the TCC? Huh??
 

lesterl

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Picture 3 posted (look at the 2 fuses, one is in the IP and TRANS is the fuse #20) This fuse supplies 12v to the coils, it wont shift, but will be in 3rd gear and TCC lockup wont occur.

Have you checked the brake switch input to the PCM as this can cause unlocking of the TQ converter.
 

Stripermike

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I see it now - but I'm a little ignorant, what is IP fuse block? Would it be fuse #20 on the dash fuse block, or no?

I haven't checked the brake switch input, haven't had the wiring diag. to even figure out where to check until now, and even now not entirely sure how to go about checking.
 

lesterl

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IP Instrument Panel (Dash)

Find purple wire off brake switch, connect digital meter to it, ground other lead connection and when you hit the brakes the 12v source should disappear.
 

Stripermike

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Pulled fuse #20 this morning once the truck was warm & I was pointed forward - drove to the job in 3rd and noted results. I have to say, I still felt something - no bucking or banging hesitation like I get when all systems are up and running, but something. Almost like an upshift, or the TQ locking - can I be sure that the lockup function is disabled when running in this mode? If not, I'm a little perplexed.

Brake switch input seems fine, but I guess if there is a short in the wire somewhere it wouldn't show up consistently.

I'd also like to ask any of you - since I can only seem to eliminate this symptom by reliably and for an extended period of driving by running with the coolant temp sensor unplugged, what other things could I be affecting that might cause my problem? I know egr is a common reason for some of the symptoms I have, but when I pulled it it was clean and the plunger was operating smoothly. Also, after running it with egr disconnected I had an egr code, so I'm assuming if it were not functioning correctly it would set a code now.

I'd like to be able to pin this on TCC function, even if it is a power-to or grounding-of the TCC issue, but I'm 2nd guessing here and have to be confident in my position before having someone get back into this transmission.

I know I've said this before, but the symptom almost always occurs after acceleration when slightly letting up on the accelerator - more pronounced under load, ie; on incline - less pronounced if letting up on a downhill, etc.
 

lesterl

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If you felt something with #20 pulled (feeds all of the solenoids in the transmission), then you have an engine issue..... (I have a bucking issue when loading mine down, still trying to figure it out, plug wires are next, just doing some research first....)
 

Tex99Tahoe

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If you felt something with #20 pulled (feeds all of the solenoids in the transmission), then you have an engine issue.....

Good point lesterl, now I'm starting to think Throttle Position Sensor or Manifold Vacuum Sensor, and how they can fool the computer. Had a bad TPS on my Blazer, never showed in DTC, did the funny surge/hunt thing. Tested it, got occasional skip readings, nothing serious. Cracked it open anyway, found rats nest of broken coil windings inside it. Replaced, everything fine. Computer never complained, go figure...
 

lesterl

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I would check ignition stuff, what all has been replaced there? Any codes stored in the PCM?
 

Stripermike

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I ran the truck again this morning with #20 fuse pulled - just to double check myself. REALLY ran it - up the highway. Definitely a "pull" - again it happens as I start to relax off the pedal after accelerating. It's consistent - I can let the truck decel, then bring it back up to speed and pretty much every time I get the "pull". That's in 3rd with #20 fuse pulled.

Afterwards, I pulled the coolant temp sensor plug again and drove up and down the highway a few times. Nothing. No sign of any hesitation, pull, bucking, NOTHING. Pulling that sensor plug is the ONLY way I can get the problem to go into hiding.

Here's another thing - you may all be starting to think I'm loopy. A while back I posted about a metallic "thunk" on taking off from a stop. Lester, you had ideas it was coming from the TQ lockup shaft if I remember right. That noise has gotten worse, especially once the truck is warm. Here's the thing - tonight as I was leaving work I stopped at the intersection. While waiting to pull out, the truck made a "bang", just like the noise I hear when taking off - the rpm's changed and the truck tried to "lurch" forward. It couldn't obviously because I had my foot on the brake. WTF!!!

I've said this before, but I'm at the end with this truck. I've owned probably 2 dozen vehicles in my 32 years of driving and I've never had one with so many quirky, unresolvable issues as this one.

In answer to your question about parts - I've replaced the TPS, coolant temp sensor, checked and cleaned MAF sensor, egr. The truck has a new distributor. I have pulled and inspected the plugs and wires - I'm hesitant to throw more good $$ after bad, but I may replace them even though they all seem fine.

I just don't know where to go with this truck at this point. I can't bring it to someone and go after this with an open wallet - I already have far more into the truck than it will ever be worth, and in the process of trying to figure the current problem out I've come up with a laundry list of other things that could certainly use attention.
 

lesterl

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Welcome to my world.... I keep putting money into my vehicles, and each time I get a bit closer to having issues resolved, but always find something more to do. I went under the other day to weld up an exhaust leak, found one of the pipes was basically just shoved together, found one of my o2 sensors missing (suspected that), and the pipe that was shoved together had 2 large slits down the sides so they could do that (couldnt afford a coupler i guess?) found a break in the weld from the pipe to the muffler inlet fitting, leaking exhaust flange donut, etc..... I also suspect my bang/ clunk has something to do with my exhaust on the truck as one of the pipes is close to the trans cross member and has a shiny spot on it..... I dumped a fair ammount of money into my Tahoe (more than it is worth), but it is nice to drive and runs great.... labor of love I guess....

So unplugging the coolant temp sensor keeps issue from occuring.

By unplugging CTS the system stays open loop and ignores the O2's, try unplugging the front o2 sensors and hook everything else up and see what you get (besides a SES light)... tie the sensor wires out of the way so they dont get damaged.
 

Stripermike

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No luck running without the O2's. Question - do you know if running with the CTS unplugged has an effect on timing? What other things are left out of the picture?

Does anyone know if I can test the egr valve somehow?

Lester - my bang/clunk is definitely NOT exhaust. I can't say with 100% certainty, but I truly believe it is driveline related. Tranny, rear dif. something.
 

Stripermike

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Oh, and by the way... they are nice to drive, unless yours is lurching and bucking down the road like mine does. Then they suck to drive. When I think of how nice a ride I could have bought for the 7k I have into this 99 piece of scrap metal it makes me want to vomit. Must be a Dumbass!!
 

rockenthebowtie

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Wow found something you might want to read and check its exactly like your problem... and it reads as follows... Some may complain of an engine misfire.. buck.. chuggle or fishbite feeling at operating temperature. . Its mostly felt on deceleration shortly after cresting a hill or shortly after TCC engagement that may be mis interpreted as a transmission concern.. etc etc.. the fix remive the upper intake and check for reversed fuel injector nozzles.. make sure each injector nozzle is assigned to the correct cylinder
 
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